Salty Dog Rag - Revision history

Larry: New info from John Ramsay video

2021-09-28T15:49:21Z

New info from John Ramsay video

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:49, September 28, 2021
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	Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American partner folkdance. Lyrics and music by [https://~~www~~.~~youtube.com~~/~~watch?v=ZguIh9MnAL8&feature=youtu.be~~ Red Foley].		Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American partner folkdance. Lyrics and music by John Gordy and Edward Crowe, [https://archive.org/details/78_salty-dog-rag_red-foley-john-gordy-edward-crowe_gbia0028194a recorded] by Red Foley in 1952.

	The identity of the original choreographer is unclear. Some sources say it was "introduced" by Ricky Holden in the 1950s<ref>Andrew Carnie's Folk Dance [https://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html Instructions for Salty Dog Rag]</ref><ref name="ARH">ARHtisitic License blog [https://arhtisticlicense.com/2021/06/19/id-rather-be-dancing-united-states-folk-dances/ entry of June 19, 2021]</ref>, though Ricky Holden has reportedly denied authorship.<ref>Ron Houston, personal communication</ref>		The identity of the original choreographer is unclear. Some sources say it was "introduced" by Ricky Holden in the 1950s<ref>Andrew Carnie's Folk Dance [https://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html Instructions for Salty Dog Rag]</ref><ref name="ARH">ARHtisitic License blog [https://arhtisticlicense.com/2021/06/19/id-rather-be-dancing-united-states-folk-dances/ entry of June 19, 2021]</ref>, though Ricky Holden has reportedly denied authorship.<ref>Ron Houston, personal communication</ref>
	Others say it "goes back to the ragtime era circa 1911"<ref name="ARH"/> ~~but~~ if so it ~~would have been~~ to different music~~, since the Red Foley song came out in 1952~~.		Others say it "goes back to the ragtime era circa 1911";<ref name="ARH"/><ref name="JMR">Comments by John M Ramsay in [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MK-oKbvXms this video]</ref> if so it was of course danced to different music.
	Frank Hamilton has ~~also~~ been credited as the source.<ref>Mynatt, C.V. and Bernard D. Kaiman, ''Folk Dancing For Students and Teachers'', W. C. Brown Co., Dubuque IA, 1968, page 42 ~~(taken from reference 6 below)~~</ref>		Frank Hamilton has been credited as the source,<ref>Mynatt, C.V. and Bernard D. Kaiman, ''Folk Dancing For Students and Teachers'', W. C. Brown Co., Dubuque IA, 1968, page 42</ref> and it has also been attributed to Nita and Manning Smith of College Station, Texas.<ref name="JMR"/>

	It was presented by Jack Sankey at Stockton Folk Dance Camp in 1955<ref>Stockton Folk Dance Camp [https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5372e7efe4b0cb63d6f65424/t/54baf62ee4b07f864ed13fee/1421538862173/FDC1955.pdf 1955 syllabus], p. 83</ref> and at that time contained only two parts, what we would now call Figure 1 and the chorus.		It was presented by Jack Sankey at Stockton Folk Dance Camp in 1955<ref>Stockton Folk Dance Camp [https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5372e7efe4b0cb63d6f65424/t/54baf62ee4b07f864ed13fee/1421538862173/FDC1955.pdf 1955 syllabus], p. 83</ref> and at that time contained only two parts, what we would now call Figure 1 and the chorus.
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	The story of the subsequently added variations is complex, but "[b]y 1969, all descriptions were of the full contemporary version."<ref>Ibid. Ron speculates that Sankey did in fact create the dance based on ''Cakewalk''.</ref>		The story of the subsequently added variations is complex, but "[b]y 1969, all descriptions were of the full contemporary version."<ref>Ibid. Ron speculates that Sankey did in fact create the dance based on ''Cakewalk''.</ref>

	On top of all this, the dance is done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The ~~standard structure of the~~ dance is two figures and a chorus: The sequence is Figure 1, then the chorus, then Figure 2, then the chorus, and so forth. See example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here] and notes [http://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html here].		On top of all this, the dance is done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The dance contains two figures and a chorus: The sequence is Figure 1, then the chorus, then Figure 2, then the chorus, and so forth. See example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here] and notes [http://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html here].
	In Israel, on the other hand, the chorus is treated as just another figure, hence the dance has three parts that repeat ABC, ABC, and so forth, as in the ~~linked~~ Rokdim video. Moreover, the second part has undergone some changes, incorporating backward chugs, and the handhold has been lost. (Though perhaps this isn't universal even in Israel, see [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9gdVjHbhc here].) How and when these variations were introduced is unknown.		In Israel, on the other hand, the chorus is treated as just another figure, hence the dance has three parts that repeat ABC, ABC, and so forth, as in the [https://rokdim.co.il/#/Dance/5abd23a1db5332303a8b5353/Salty%20Dog%20Rag/%D7%A1%D7%9C%D7%98%D7%99%20%D7%93%D7%95%D7%92%20%D7%A8%D7%92 Rokdim video]. Moreover, the second part has undergone some changes, incorporating backward chugs, and the handhold has been lost. (Though perhaps this isn't universal even in Israel, see [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9gdVjHbhc here].) How and when these variations were introduced is unknown.

	=== References and Links ===		=== References and Links ===

Larry: handhold

2021-09-18T14:35:22Z

handhold

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:35, September 18, 2021
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	On top of all this, the dance is done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The standard structure of the dance is two figures and a chorus: The sequence is Figure 1, then the chorus, then Figure 2, then the chorus, and so forth. See example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here] and notes [http://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html here].		On top of all this, the dance is done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The standard structure of the dance is two figures and a chorus: The sequence is Figure 1, then the chorus, then Figure 2, then the chorus, and so forth. See example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here] and notes [http://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html here].
	In Israel, on the other hand, the chorus is treated as just another figure, hence the dance has three parts that repeat ABC, ABC, and so forth, as in the linked Rokdim video. Moreover, the second part has undergone some changes, incorporating backward chugs. (Though perhaps this isn't universal even in Israel, see [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9gdVjHbhc here].) How and when these variations were introduced is unknown.		In Israel, on the other hand, the chorus is treated as just another figure, hence the dance has three parts that repeat ABC, ABC, and so forth, as in the linked Rokdim video. Moreover, the second part has undergone some changes, incorporating backward chugs, and the handhold has been lost. (Though perhaps this isn't universal even in Israel, see [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9gdVjHbhc here].) How and when these variations were introduced is unknown.

	=== References and Links ===		=== References and Links ===

Larry: Rearrange and improve references

2021-09-17T21:44:15Z

Rearrange and improve references

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:44, September 17, 2021
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	Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American partner folkdance. Lyrics and music by [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZguIh9MnAL8&feature=youtu.be Red Foley].		Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American partner folkdance. Lyrics and music by [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZguIh9MnAL8&feature=youtu.be Red Foley].

	The identity of the original choreographer is unclear. Some sources say it was "introduced" by Ricky Holden in the 1950s<ref>Andrew Carnie's Folk Dance [https://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html Instructions for Salty Dog Rag]</ref><ref name="ARH">ARHtisitic License blog [https://arhtisticlicense.com/2021/06/19/id-rather-be-dancing-united-states-folk-dances/ entry of June 19, 2021]</ref>, though Ricky Holden has reportedly denied authorship.<ref>Ron Houston, personal communication~~. Ron speculates that Jack Sankey created the dance.~~</ref>		The identity of the original choreographer is unclear. Some sources say it was "introduced" by Ricky Holden in the 1950s<ref>Andrew Carnie's Folk Dance [https://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html Instructions for Salty Dog Rag]</ref><ref name="ARH">ARHtisitic License blog [https://arhtisticlicense.com/2021/06/19/id-rather-be-dancing-united-states-folk-dances/ entry of June 19, 2021]</ref>, though Ricky Holden has reportedly denied authorship.<ref>Ron Houston, personal communication</ref>
	Others say it "goes back to the ragtime era circa 1911"<ref name="ARH"/> but if so it would have been to different music, since the Red Foley song came out in 1952.		Others say it "goes back to the ragtime era circa 1911"<ref name="ARH"/> but if so it would have been to different music, since the Red Foley song came out in 1952.
			Frank Hamilton has also been credited as the source.<ref>Mynatt, C.V. and Bernard D. Kaiman, ''Folk Dancing For Students and Teachers'', W. C. Brown Co., Dubuque IA, 1968, page 42 (taken from reference 6 below)</ref>

	It was presented by Jack Sankey at Stockton Folk Dance Camp in 1955<ref>Stockton Folk Dance Camp [https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5372e7efe4b0cb63d6f65424/t/54baf62ee4b07f864ed13fee/1421538862173/FDC1955.pdf 1955 syllabus], p. 83</ref> and at that time contained only two parts, what we would now call Figure 1 and the chorus.		It was presented by Jack Sankey at Stockton Folk Dance Camp in 1955<ref>Stockton Folk Dance Camp [https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5372e7efe4b0cb63d6f65424/t/54baf62ee4b07f864ed13fee/1421538862173/FDC1955.pdf 1955 syllabus], p. 83</ref> and at that time contained only two parts, what we would now call Figure 1 and the chorus.
	That presentation "bears musical, stylistic, and subtle choreographic resemblance to [Evelyn] Porter's 1937 description of an improvisational, Ragtime-style ''Cakewalk''."<ref name="PS94">''Folk Dance Problem Solver 1994'', Ron Houston of [https://www.sfdh.us/ The Society of Folk Dance Historians]~~</ref>~~		That presentation "bears musical, stylistic, and subtle choreographic resemblance to [Evelyn] Porter's 1937 description of an improvisational, Ragtime-style ''Cakewalk''."<ref name="PS94">''Folk Dance Problem Solver 1994'', Ron Houston of [https://www.sfdh.us/ The Society of Folk Dance Historians]
	Frank Hamilton has also been credited as the source.<ref>Mynatt, C.V. and Bernard D. Kaiman, ''Folk Dancing For Students and Teachers'', W. C. Brown Co., Dubuque IA, 1968, page 42 (taken from reference 5 above)</ref>		</ref>
	The story of the subsequently added variations is complex, but "[b]y 1969, all descriptions were of the full contemporary version."<ref ~~name="PS94"~~/>		The story of the subsequently added variations is complex, but "[b]y 1969, all descriptions were of the full contemporary version."<ref>Ibid. Ron speculates that Sankey did in fact create the dance based on ''Cakewalk''.</ref>

	On top of all this, the dance is done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The standard structure of the dance is two figures and a chorus: The sequence is Figure 1, then the chorus, then Figure 2, then the chorus, and so forth. See example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here] and notes [http://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html here].		On top of all this, the dance is done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The standard structure of the dance is two figures and a chorus: The sequence is Figure 1, then the chorus, then Figure 2, then the chorus, and so forth. See example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here] and notes [http://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html here].

Larry: additional info from Ron Houston

2021-09-17T21:37:06Z

additional info from Ron Houston

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:37, September 17, 2021
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	Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American partner folkdance. Lyrics and music by [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZguIh9MnAL8&feature=youtu.be Red Foley].		Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American partner folkdance. Lyrics and music by [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZguIh9MnAL8&feature=youtu.be Red Foley].

	The identity of the original choreographer is unclear. Some sources say it was "introduced" by Ricky Holden in the 1950s<ref>Andrew Carnie's Folk Dance [https://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html Instructions for Salty Dog Rag]</ref><ref name="ARH">ARHtisitic License blog [https://arhtisticlicense.com/2021/06/19/id-rather-be-dancing-united-states-folk-dances/ entry of June 19, 2021]</ref>,		The identity of the original choreographer is unclear. Some sources say it was "introduced" by Ricky Holden in the 1950s<ref>Andrew Carnie's Folk Dance [https://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html Instructions for Salty Dog Rag]</ref><ref name="ARH">ARHtisitic License blog [https://arhtisticlicense.com/2021/06/19/id-rather-be-dancing-united-states-folk-dances/ entry of June 19, 2021]</ref>, though Ricky Holden has reportedly denied authorship.<ref>Ron Houston, personal communication. Ron speculates that Jack Sankey created the dance.</ref>
	~~others~~ say it "goes back to the ragtime era circa 1911"<ref name="ARH"/> ~~though in the latter case~~ it would have been to different music, since the Red Foley song came out in 1952.		Others say it "goes back to the ragtime era circa 1911"<ref name="ARH"/> but if so it would have been to different music, since the Red Foley song came out in 1952.
	It was presented by Jack Sankey at Stockton Folk Dance Camp in 1955<ref>Stockton Folk Dance Camp [https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5372e7efe4b0cb63d6f65424/t/54baf62ee4b07f864ed13fee/1421538862173/FDC1955.pdf 1955 syllabus], p. 83</ref> and at that time contained only two parts, what we would now call Figure 1 and the chorus.		It was presented by Jack Sankey at Stockton Folk Dance Camp in 1955<ref>Stockton Folk Dance Camp [https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5372e7efe4b0cb63d6f65424/t/54baf62ee4b07f864ed13fee/1421538862173/FDC1955.pdf 1955 syllabus], p. 83</ref> and at that time contained only two parts, what we would now call Figure 1 and the chorus.
	That presentation "bears musical, stylistic, and subtle choreographic resemblance to [Evelyn] Porter's 1937 description of an improvisational, Ragtime-style ''Cakewalk''."<ref name="PS94">''Folk Dance Problem Solver 1994'', Ron Houston of [https://www.sfdh.us/ The Society of Folk Dance Historians]</ref>		That presentation "bears musical, stylistic, and subtle choreographic resemblance to [Evelyn] Porter's 1937 description of an improvisational, Ragtime-style ''Cakewalk''."<ref name="PS94">''Folk Dance Problem Solver 1994'', Ron Houston of [https://www.sfdh.us/ The Society of Folk Dance Historians]</ref>
	Frank Hamilton has also been credited as the source.<ref>Mynatt, C.V. and Bernard D. Kaiman, ''Folk Dancing For Students and Teachers'', W. C. Brown Co., Dubuque IA, 1968, page 42 (taken from reference 4 above)</ref>		Frank Hamilton has also been credited as the source.<ref>Mynatt, C.V. and Bernard D. Kaiman, ''Folk Dancing For Students and Teachers'', W. C. Brown Co., Dubuque IA, 1968, page 42 (taken from reference 5 above)</ref>
	The story of the subsequently added variations is complex, but "[b]y 1969, all descriptions were of the full contemporary version."<ref name="PS94"/>		The story of the subsequently added variations is complex, but "[b]y 1969, all descriptions were of the full contemporary version."<ref name="PS94"/>

	On top of all this, the dance is done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The standard structure of the dance is two figures and a chorus: The sequence is Figure 1, then the chorus, then Figure 2, then the chorus, and so forth. See example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here] and notes [http://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html here].		On top of all this, the dance is done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The standard structure of the dance is two figures and a chorus: The sequence is Figure 1, then the chorus, then Figure 2, then the chorus, and so forth. See example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here] and notes [http://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html here].
	In Israel, on the other hand, the chorus is treated as just another figure, hence the dance has three parts that repeat ABC, ABC, and so forth, as in the linked Rokdim video. (Though perhaps this isn't universal even in Israel, see [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9gdVjHbhc here].) How and when ~~this variation was~~ introduced is unknown.		In Israel, on the other hand, the chorus is treated as just another figure, hence the dance has three parts that repeat ABC, ABC, and so forth, as in the linked Rokdim video. Moreover, the second part has undergone some changes, incorporating backward chugs. (Though perhaps this isn't universal even in Israel, see [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9gdVjHbhc here].) How and when these variations were introduced is unknown.

	=== References and Links ===		=== References and Links ===

Larry: punctuation

2021-09-17T17:23:27Z

punctuation

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:23, September 17, 2021
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	On top of all this, the dance is done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The standard structure of the dance is two figures and a chorus: The sequence is Figure 1, then the chorus, then Figure 2, then the chorus, and so forth. See example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here] and notes [http://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html here].		On top of all this, the dance is done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The standard structure of the dance is two figures and a chorus: The sequence is Figure 1, then the chorus, then Figure 2, then the chorus, and so forth. See example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here] and notes [http://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html here].

	In Israel, on the other hand, the chorus is treated as just another figure, hence the dance has three parts that repeat ABC, ABC, and so forth, as in the linked Rokdim video. (Though perhaps this isn't universal even in Israel, see [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9gdVjHbhc here].) How and when this variation was introduced is unknown.		In Israel, on the other hand, the chorus is treated as just another figure, hence the dance has three parts that repeat ABC, ABC, and so forth, as in the linked Rokdim video. (Though perhaps this isn't universal even in Israel, see [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9gdVjHbhc here].) How and when this variation was introduced is unknown.

Larry: elaboration of origins

2021-09-17T17:16:40Z

elaboration of origins

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American folkdance; choreographer unknown, lyrics and music by [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZguIh9MnAL8&feature=youtu.be Red Foley].
+Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American partner folkdance. Lyrics and music by [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZguIh9MnAL8&feature=youtu.be Red Foley].
-The noteworthy aspect of this dance is that it's done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The standard structure of the dance is two figures and a refrain: You dance figure 1, then the refrain, then figure 2, then the refrain, and so forth. See example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here] and notes [http://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html here].
+The identity of the original choreographer is unclear. Some sources say it was "introduced" by Ricky Holden in the 1950s<ref>Andrew Carnie's Folk Dance [https://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html Instructions for Salty Dog Rag]</ref><ref name="ARH">ARHtisitic License blog [https://arhtisticlicense.com/2021/06/19/id-rather-be-dancing-united-states-folk-dances/ entry of June 19, 2021]</ref>,
 {{AussieDance|1300}}

Larry: Update Rokdim ID

2019-04-30T01:07:14Z

Update Rokdim ID

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:07, April 30, 2019
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	{{AussieDance\|1300}}		{{AussieDance\|1300}}

	{{Rokdim\|7304}}		{{Rokdim\|5abd23a1db5332303a8b5353\|7304}}

	[[Category:Dances]]		[[Category:Dances]]

Larry: Rokdim, dead link, more info

2017-01-10T23:37:44Z

Rokdim, dead link, more info

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:37, January 10, 2017
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	Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American folkdance; choreographer unknown.		Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American folkdance; choreographer unknown, lyrics and music by [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZguIh9MnAL8&feature=youtu.be Red Foley].

	The noteworthy aspect of this dance is that it's done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The standard structure of the dance is two figures and a refrain: You dance figure 1, then the refrain, then figure 2, then the refrain, and so forth. See ~~examples~~ [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here]~~, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCrIKSIvTKI here],~~ and notes [http://~~www~~.~~edb~~.~~utexas.edu/coe/depts/kin/Faculty/slacks~~/~~crpac~~/~~folkdances~~/~~SALTY_DOG_RAG~~.html here].		The noteworthy aspect of this dance is that it's done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The standard structure of the dance is two figures and a refrain: You dance figure 1, then the refrain, then figure 2, then the refrain, and so forth. See example [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here] and notes [http://folkdancemusings.blogspot.com/2014/04/salty-dog-rag-usa.html here].

	In Israel, on the other hand, the refrain is treated as just another figure, so the dance has three parts that repeat ABC, ABC, and so forth. How and when this variation was introduced is unknown.		In Israel, on the other hand, the refrain is treated as just another figure, so the dance has three parts that repeat ABC, ABC, and so forth, as in the linked Rokdim video. (Though perhaps this isn't universal even in Israel, see [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td9gdVjHbhc here].) How and when this variation was introduced is unknown.

	{{AussieDance\|1300}}		{{AussieDance\|1300}}

			{{Rokdim\|7304}}

	[[Category:Dances]]		[[Category:Dances]]

Larry: Created page with "Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American folkdance; choreographer unknown. The noteworthy aspect of this dance is that it's done differently in Israel than in the rest of the w..."

2014-03-16T19:53:11Z

Created page with "Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American folkdance; choreographer unknown. The noteworthy aspect of this dance is that it's done differently in Israel than in the rest of the w..."

New page

Hebrew: סלטי דוג רג. American folkdance; choreographer unknown.

The noteworthy aspect of this dance is that it's done differently in Israel than in the rest of the world. The standard structure of the dance is two figures and a refrain: You dance figure 1, then the refrain, then figure 2, then the refrain, and so forth. See examples [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5aZ68CGoQk here], [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCrIKSIvTKI here], and notes [http://www.edb.utexas.edu/coe/depts/kin/Faculty/slacks/crpac/folkdances/SALTY_DOG_RAG.html here].

In Israel, on the other hand, the refrain is treated as just another figure, so the dance has three parts that repeat ABC, ABC, and so forth. How and when this variation was introduced is unknown.

{{AussieDance|1300}}
[[Category:Dances]]